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variator sheave holding tools

7K views 30 replies 6 participants last post by  pellicle 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi

I just bought one from an eBay seller in Greece (and I'm in Australia).

I have some exposure to metal fabrication and the manufacturing of this was phukken exemplary. Having seen the one that bigwheelsturning bent in his video I was wary of buying rubbish. However as I'll use a rattle gun to do the removal I only need the holder for putting back on, not taking off, which I believe will be easier on it ... none the less this thing is just ... WOW

The price was 70 euro and you'll need to sort out shipping prices (it was 40 euro to Australia).

Some pictures

IMG-20180709-WA0007.jpg


IMG-20180709-WA0009.jpg


IMG-20180709-WA0011.jpg


The sellers name is f1sport and he's from Greece. This is a link to the auction I bought (but search his seller site for Yamaha if it changes)
He's clearly an engineer and had this to say in communications about the tool (I was so impressed I wrote back to him):
I'm very glad that you are happy with your item!
Be sure that is a very useful tool for the Tmax transmission maintains.
When I made the first items of this I have used waterjet cutting but the results was very bad.
Stainless steel is a very difficult material and waterjet cut leaves a very bad finish.
This tool cut on a big cutter press machine at a mechanical center of ship repairs.
After cutting drilled by the same way and then goes to an abrasive machine for the final finish.
Only this way gives this results on this material.

If you're thinking of getting one I think you won't be disappointed.
 

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#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
It looks very nice!! I really struggled with what to do - I just didn't want to spend so much on a rarely used tool. I went with a much cheaper route. I bought this:

tool.jpg

(https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-00 ... B000HS4NA8)

For $20 or so. Then I cut off the little nubs, drilled holes, and put in bolts that would screw in appropriately to the threaded holes on the tmax. Worked great! Purpose of basing off this tool of course is the adjustability, so I could match it up properly.

tool_view.jpg

pulley-1.jpg


My total, all-in cost was about $25 :)
 

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#3 ·
The sheave on the left is the secondary, the sheave on the right is the primary which has the variator.
On my 2014 model, the 4-pin tool can be used on the secondary sheave, but the variator sheave does not have the four holes.
I am still trying to figure out how to get it off, as the 30mm nut is far tighter than the recommended tightening torque.
I am considering the Variator Locker for the 400 model - it looks like it might do the job.
 

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#4 ·
alaskaguy said:
It looks very nice!! I really struggled with what to do - I just didn't want to spend so much on a rarely used tool. I went with a much cheaper route. I bought this:

My total, all-in cost was about $25 :)
if you look carefully at the tool I purchased it has 4 pins to fit the primary and flips around to have 2 pins to fit the secondary.

The manual suggests 160Nm torque for the primary but half that (90) for the secondary. You'll be able to undo the primary with a rattle gun but I'm willing to bet you struggle to get the required torque on tightening it with that clutch holder.

Of course you can just rattle gun it on and "near enough" will probably be ok. Did you read my blog post on that?

If I was availed of my old garage (I've moved recently) I'd have munged one up out of plywood (7 ply) and a holesaw and drill press.

Either way, let me know how you go.
 
#5 ·
#6 ·
sk8norcal said:
cool blog! you should add it to your sig.
thanks for the kind words, but as the vast majority of it is not T-Max related I'd feel bad doing that

I've posted here (in various places) bits from it which are related to T-Max over the years, although this is probably a better link to all my T-Max related posts:
https://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/search/label/T-Max
 
#7 ·
pellicle said:
alaskaguy said:
if you look carefully at the tool I purchased it has 4 pins to fit the primary and flips around to have 2 pins to fit the secondary.
Oh, I looked. As I said, I very nearly bought one just like you did.

The manual suggests 160Nm torque for the primary but half that (90) for the secondary. You'll be able to undo the primary with a rattle gun but I'm willing to bet you struggle to get the required torque on tightening it with that clutch holder.
It worked fine. I torqued it to spec.
 
#9 ·
#12 ·
90GTVert said:
I used 1/4" x 1 1/4" steel flat bar for my copy of bigwheelsturning's tool and it has worked fine for me without bending.
I'd probably have done the same, but since moving house I just don't have access to a workshop to make anything, so I figured that by the time I made something up I'd be able to buy this one at not much more money ...
 
#13 ·
Mine bent, because I was too cheap to go buy a new piece of pipe. Used what I had laying around, but should have gone bigger.

But! The nut was on so tight that even a bigger pipe might not have bent, but I would have needed a 6ft cheater to get the nut to move. Don't know how many foot pounds the mech at the factory used. Had to get out my little torch and heat up one side of the nut to get it to even move.

Be sure to use Yamaha's Polyurea Grease on the threads when you put it back together. The grease is a "high heat/pressure" item that keeps the threads from "galling" under high pressures when you torque the nut down. That's one thing that would ruin your day if you messed up the treads.
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
bigwheelsturning said:
Mine bent, because I was too cheap to go buy a new piece of pipe. Used what I had laying around, but should have gone bigger.
the one in the video looked like it was made at a factory (painted and stuff with T-Max Club printed on it).
tmax-club.jpg


I used to see them on eBay but no longer do. But I guarantee you won't be bending this one :)

... Don't know how many foot pounds the mech at the factory used.
I'm willing to bet a rattle gun would have done the trick ...

Be sure to use Yamaha's Polyurea Grease on the threads when you put it back together. The grease is a "high heat/pressure" item that keeps the threads from "galling" under high pressures when you torque the nut down
I did some reading of threads here and decided to go with what was in the manual I have (which is BT grease, or bentone grease).

A few years back this popped up on an Australian forum and I wondered what caused the grease to go waxy like this:
http://scootercommunity.com.au/forums/p ... spx#161570

anyway, I think that the bentone grease I chose has a high enough temperature range and as well as holding the "spin grease" to lube the collar with the O-rings to the inside of the casing bearing its also to give the nut proper lube to allow tensioning to be done without friction causing errors in tension wrench tripping points.

I'll report how it goes, but the original one I had performed perfectly well for 160,000km
 

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#15 ·
I purchased the holding tool from Europe, AUD $106 delivered to Australia, and it works a treat, except that getting the nut off the variator sheave was harder than expected.
I found it strange that the nut is closer to 1 1/8" than 30 or 31 mm, so I purchased a 1 1/8" spanner with a long handle.
I still couldn't move the nut, even with my 96 kg weight standing on 35cm long handle.
According to my calculation, that equates to 330 Nm of torque, which should have been ample … only it wasn't.
I don't have a powerful rattle gun, so the next option was a hammer. The largest workshop hammer wasn't working, so out with the short handled sledge hammer, which weighs about 6 kg.
After applying heat, and about ten hefty blows, the nut finally loosened.
I shall be retightening to the recommended torque after replacement.
It reminded me of the 1960's and 70's when I always loosened the axle nuts on new bikes, and then retightened to spec, to ensure that I wasn't stranded on the side of the road after a puncture, as so many riders were.
A good quality torque wrench is my most used tools when working on motorcycles.
 
#16 ·
WayneTalbot said:
I purchased the holding tool from Europe, AUD $106 delivered to Australia, and it works a treat...
wow that was cheaper than me ... same seller?

, except that getting the nut off the variator sheave was harder than expected.
I found it strange that the nut is closer to 1 1/8" than 30 or 31 mm, so I purchased a 1 1/8" spanner with a long handle
which is why I mentioned to you in posts that it was actually 29mm not the 30 you've been saying. If you calculate 1 1/8th it comes to 29.26mm ... which is smaller than 30, so while a 30 will fit over it's going to bugger up your nut over time. Use the 29 as I mentioned (or if you have the 1 1/18th impact socket then go wild with that).

I still couldn't move the nut, even with my 96 kg weight standing on 35cm long handle.
I understood that they "self tighten" due to motor rotation ... so when you put it on you put it on to 160, but it'll tighten up over time.

Sounds like you had a fun day ;-)

I'll report if my $99 bunnings special rattle gun gets it off next time ... I see there is a Ryobi oneplus version of electric rattle gun which goes higher ... perhaps I should have bought that instead?
 
#17 ·
pellicle said:
, except that getting the nut off the variator sheave was harder than expected.
I found it strange that the nut is closer to 1 1/8" than 30 or 31 mm, so I purchased a 1 1/8" spanner with a long handle
which is why I mentioned to you in posts that it was actually 29mm not the 30 you've been saying. If you calculate 1 1/8th it comes to 29.26mm ... which is smaller than 30, so while a 30 will fit over it's going to bugger up your nut over time. Use the 29 as I mentioned (or if you have the 1 1/18th impact socket then go wild with that).
I'll confirm that. The "special tools" I purchased (and successfully used) for this operation were:

By the way - I happened to be looking at that Motion Pro tool last night. It's bigger than it looks like it is in the pictures.

I used all of these sockets in conjunction with my Dewalt 20v impact wrench to get them off, and my Kobalt 1/2" torque wrench (linked several posts back) to get them back on again. All worked great.

Not really sure why anyone would use a spanner instead of sockets. That just seems like an exercise in frustration.
 
#19 ·
@WayneTalbot:

just for reference:

https://www.majestyusa.com/forums/viewt ... mm#p307787

pellicle said:
WayneTalbot said:
Yep, doing that too.

..., and will install when I figure out how to remove the 30mm nut.
.
I don't want to seem pedantic, but its 29mm ... not 30.

I bought a impact socket from Supercheap and ended up using a borrowed rattle gun to get it off (and my bunnings one to put it back on.

Did you read that blog post of mine on that? It explains everything I did.
 
#22 ·
pellicle said:
Out of interest, would a decent shifting spanner be sufficient?
I don't remember it being hard to turn.....especially with the way I set it up in that photo. But I dunno why you would, unless you don't have an impact wrench. In my case, I mean, I have the thing - I'm going to use it whenever the opportunity presents itself. And moving a 46mm nut is a pretty good opportunity :)
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
alaskaguy said:
pellicle said:
Out of interest, would a decent shifting spanner be sufficient?
I don't remember it being hard to turn.....especially with the way I set it up in that photo. But I dunno why you would, unless you don't have an impact wrench. In my case, I mean, I have the thing - I'm going to use it whenever the opportunity presents itself. And moving a 46mm nut is a pretty good opportunity :)
well my manual suggests that the tension would only be in the order of 90Nm, so I'd thought it would be an "easy" job.

I see from your comments you loosened it a bit before applying the spring compressor, as the manual doesn't mention that I wonder if the bending of your metal bar was caused by something else (like the PVC fouling on another bit)?

sheaveDisassembly.jpg
 

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#24 ·
forgot to address this question:
alaskaguy said:
...
Not really sure why anyone would use a spanner instead of sockets. That just seems like an exercise in frustration.
mainly because
  • I doubt my electric rattle gun has the balls[/*]
  • I'd have to spend another bunch of dollars on another rattle gun socket that gets used like every 2 years[/*]
  • I've got some pretty big and high quality shifters (metric and imperial ;-)[/*]
 
#25 ·
alaskaguy said:
... I mean, I have the thing - I'm going to use it whenever the opportunity presents itself. And moving a 46mm nut is a pretty good opportunity :)
I just decided to check "what the hell" the hex inside of that sheave tool was ... blow me down but it measures 46mm!!

Baby, its even better value than I thought, as its got "everything" ... (well because I already had the other dimension tools except the impact rated 29mm socket and the impact driver)
 
#26 ·
alaskaguy said:
Not really sure why anyone would use a spanner instead of sockets. That just seems like an exercise in frustration.
My reason for using a spanner versus a socket comes from the experience of breaking the ratchet mechanism on my everyday set.
The handle isn't long enough to get sufficient leverage, and if I add a length of pipe to extend the lever, the torque exceeds the limit of the ratchet mechanis, and it breaks.
Normally that should not be a problem, but in the case in question, where over 300 Nm was required to loosen the nut, the spanner was the safest option.
 
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