[HRHQMaj]

Whew! I just done reading up on a comparison between the Majesty vs. Burgman. :twisted: :twisted:
'Twoulda been no prob, 'cept it was Motociclismo Italia ! :shock:
No easy task wading thru all the translation muck.
Nyways, I just got called away from this 'puter. I'll be back to write up some more about the Italian comparo.
But in one sentence, the outcome was: City choice-Burg; Highway-Maj.
Scusame por favor.

Ok, I'm back. Nyways, for the 1st 3 mos. of 2004 in Europe, the Maj outsold the Burg by just under 1,000 units The price difference was only 8 Euros; E6,178 for Burg, E6,170 for Maj.
The Maj has bigger front wheel (14") than B.
Maj has DOHC (double overhead camshaft)
Burg has SOHC (single camshaft)
Max Speed during test: Maj=148 km/hr; Burg=143 km/hr

The MOST significant difference is in running RPM:
at 130 km/hr, Maj is dancing at 6,000 RPM while Burg is straining at 7,200 RPM

Valve check for Burg - @ 6,000 miles (?)
Valve check for Maj - @ 24,000 miles

Oh Baby, oh baby ! Ah made the right choice ! :twisted:

 

[Willy Mo]

Yep, I agree. This has forced Suzuki to change the 400 a bit (at least overseas).

http://www.motorbox.com/Moto/Magazine/S ... tml?mmc=49

I'm sure this will make it to North America. I wonder if Yamaha will counter by upgrading the Majesty if and when this new AN 400 makes it stateside and to Canada? This could be the beginning of the 400 cc maxi scooter wars (or maybee I'm just dreaming) :shock: :lol: .

Suzuki does not need to do anything with their 650, because it is already the "top of the line" maxi scoot (are you listening Honda?). But, if another manufacturer comes out with a 650-900 cc scoot to challenge the mighty an 650, things will get interesting. Suzuki sits on top of the sports motorcycle world with their GSXR line. They have won more races and sold more GSXR bikes than any repli racers from Honda, Kawasaki or Yamaha. I wonder if they would take the same, aggresive "we gotta continue to be the best" attitude with their Maxi Scoots. I would love to see the outcome of that. :wink:

 

[ctpaddler2000]

I have a couple dealers near me that sell both Yamaha and Suzuki motorcycles. They order and stock the Burgman 400, but not the Majesty. Not sure why?

 

[Rubble]

I have a couple dealers near me that sell both Yamaha and Suzuki motorcycles. They order and stock the Burgman 400, but not the Majesty. Not sure why?

I've seen that at a couple dealers as well but the sales people were at a loss to explain why when I asked.

 

[HRHQMaj]

John Public by and large do not know much about Majesty yet.
Yamaha hasn't spent the money in ads.

 

[texascycle]

I am happy to report that I have seen a few more Majestys around and now I am seeing about equal numbers of Majestys vs. both big Burgmans and Silverwings. I guess they are selling finally.

 

[bigbw]

Just the opposite here.. Dealer had a MAJ in stock.. Suzuki dealer would not even order a Burg without a non refundable deposit..

 

[MinnMax]

No question that spec for spec, the current Majesty wins out pretty much on every point versus the current Burgman 400. As pointed out in an earlier post, that will be more questionable with the next incarnation of the AN400 in 2007 for the U.S.

This fits past behavior by Suzuki with the Burgman 400. They were first off the line with the bigger than 250cc maxiscooter. Sat on their laurals through the introduction of the 500cc Aprilias and the Yamaha T-Max. When the Honda Silver Wing 600 came out in 2002, Suzuki had to do something. They did and followed within a year with an improved 400 and their new Burgman 650. A year after that, Yamaha bested the AN400 with their Majesty 400. Now we're seeing Suzuki coming back with a further improved Burgman 400 just around the corner.

Ultimately, it us maxiscooterists that will win this competition. We're the one's getting better and better choices of big scoots from which to choose.

And yes, based on prototypes, exposed secret testing, rumored design plans, it won't be long before my own Burgman 650 will fall in the middle of the range as 700, 800, even 900cc maxiscooters and automatic motorcycles hit the market. I can hardly wait.

 

[texascycle]

Just did a quick run through of the posts on the Burgman site and was happy to own a Majesty afterwards. They seem to have a bit more issues than the Majesty. Good reading though, and scootin' folks are nice!

 

[hotshoetom]

Have any of you folks checked out the valve adjustment procedure in the shop manual for your Majesty???? Yikes! It is the most convoluted mess you ever saw. Better hope you don't ever have to do more than just check the lash measurement. If you ever have to adjust it, the camshafts have to come out and you have to use shims to adjust them...unbelievable! I have never seen a more complicated system in my life!

 

[myhrdly]

Have any of you folks checked out the valve adjustment procedure in the shop manual for your Majesty???? Yikes! It is the most convoluted mess you ever saw. Better hope you don't ever have to do more than just check the lash measurement. If you ever have to adjust it, the camshafts have to come out and you have to use shims to adjust them...unbelievable! I have never seen a more complicated system in my life!

Hopefully by then, I will have my money's worth out of the Maj., and will just go buy a new one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gpsnut2003]

Hopefully by then, I will have my money's worth out of the Maj., and will just go buy a new one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i unfoutunately won't have that luxury !
at my current rate i will clock up the 40,000km in just on two years of ownership.

jason.
almost 15,000km in 9 months.

 

[hotshoetom]

Jason,

I have no idea how hard you ride your bike, but I suspect that folks that don't push their bikes too hard may never actually have to adjust the valves. This seems to be a pretty solid design. Those of us that are using premium grade oils and not abusing the engine may well see 50k miles before an adjustment is really needed. I have had cars like that with recommended lash adjustments and if I had been good to it during the normal interval between adjustments, when I checked it the next time, that was all I did. No adjustment necessary.

maybe you will get lucky!!!

 

[gpsnut2003]

i certainly hope so....

the dealer will be checking the clearances, at the recommended intervals, and i just hope that they are honest enough that they dont do any un-nessesary work on it.

so far they have been great, and have not given me any reason to doubt their level of service.

i dont really push it that hard, although i do spend a lot of time higher in the rpm range (on the highways). so that might have some bearing.
also, doing the 5000km recommended oil and filter changes.

jason

 

[Ishabaka]

Unfortunately oil changes and maintenance have little to do with changes in valve lash.
The #1 cause is valve seat recession.
In an engine with aluminum cylinder heads the valve seats are steel inserts. Likewise the valves are steel (hopefully stainless, I don't know if the Majesty uses stainless valves or not)
There is NO lubrication between the valves and their seats. In the old days of leaded gasoline tetraethyl lead used to apply a thin deposit of lead to the seats that did lubricate them. The seats, and the valve faces that contact them are gradually eroded by heat and friction - causing smaller valve lash. High quality metalurgy of the seats and valves is what determines how long they last.
Almost all sport bikes use the shim over bucker valve train now - the reason is it is the lightest, allowing the highest redline before valve float.
Since the Majesty is not a superbike I wonder why they didn't use an easy, owner adjustable screw-adjustable rocker arm valve train?
Adjusting shim over buckets is a nightmare - the cams do have to come out. Plus with the Majesty a lot of plastic has to come off adding up to dealer $$$.
It's true, just because a manufacturer specifies a certain time between valve lash check doesn't mean the valves will go out of adjustment before, at, or after that time. With the Majesty let's home it is way after the specified time! Checking the valve lash is something any owner with basic mechanical skill should be able to do - you just need a set of feeler gauges. Changing the shims is a whole 'nother ball game. My advice would be to check the lash yourself - if it is OK check it in another 5,000 miles. If it is out of spec have the dealer change the shims unless you are a REALLY experiences wrencher.

 

[gpsnut2003]

Ishabaka, would an upper cylinder lubricant additive be a worthwhile adition to the majesty ?

might help the valve train last longer ?

jason

 

[Ishabaka]

Well, some of your vavle train wear is the cam lobes, surface of the buckets that contacts the cams and valve tips that contact the shims under the buckets - but it's my understanding that this is usually minimal compared to valve face recession. On the other hand - Honda got ahold of some bad steel and producced a bunch of cams for their 750 & 700cc
Interceptor V-fours that literally disintegrated! The cam lobes were wiped flat (worn into a circle) at as little as 10,000 miles on some bikes - they were replaced under a secret warranty - just goes to show Japanese engines are marvels of reliability but are not foolproof.
Everything I have read about oil additives indicates they DON'T work - your best protection is a good oil. Good brand name oils already have a "protection package" of chemicals in them that is complete out of the bottle. Some of these chemicals are "sacrificial" - that means they are used up protecting then engine - for example all engines make acids as a byproduct of combustion and some of these acids get into the oil, mostly by blowby past the piston rings - oil has chemicals to neutralise the acids but once they are used up they are gone - then you engine has no further protection against the corrosive effects of the acids.

If - by top end lubricants you mean GASOLINE additives again I don't think they do much to protect the valve seats. They CAN clean the fuel injectors and combustion chambers (valve faces, combustion chamber of cylinder head and piston faces) - but valve seat recession is caused by hot gasses during the combusion and exhaust phases and by hot valves grinding against the valve seats - at which point your gasoline additives are burnt up.

So to end a really long winded answer - I wouldn't use any oil additives, I do use gasoline additives but only to keep the fuel injectors & combustion chamber clean - I like RedLine but Chevron's Techron has a very good reputation....

 

[gpsnut2003]

thanks for the input.

i was talking about fuel addatives, like those used to help an older "leadded" engine run on ULP fuels. those ars supposed to help the valve seat recession problems.

something like this.
http://www.flashlube.com.au/store/page.pl?id=214

i will ask my dealer what they think on the subject next time im down there.

jason

 

[spirilis]

Hmm, pulling cams, sounds like fun. Never done that kind of work, best I've done is changing a clutch. Knowing me I'd be up for doing that valve lash adjustment anyway... I've seen the procedure outlined in Haynes manuals for older cars. Sounds like a b**** but definitely doable with enough patience.

 

[texascycle]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the current Burgman 400 has threaded adjusters and yet still requires removal of most of the body work ... costing just as much as the Majesty but the Suzuki having to do it 8.873 times for each 1 of the Yamaha.

Also, since the Majesty has the upper cylinder port via the storage compartment, does that eliminate some of the body removal for the valve check? (not adjustment)