Synthetic motor oil?
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There are many, way too many variables to answer this precisely, but in the case of a broken in Majesty (which in and of itself is debatable, I loosely propose 5k miles) a quality synthetic oil "can" and "should" in theory produce longer lasting protection so long as the oil is kept clean. High heat breaks oils down quicker and standard oils presumably start to falter before synthetics in controlled tests, but dirt/blow by/dust is still part of the equation, and that can have a negative effect on folks who run synthetics for double or more miles / time than standard oils, but fail to put new filters on. It really requires oil test sample analysis for your particular riding environment and style to predict which oil might best suit your scoot in terms of cost vs. protection.
In terms of sheer protection, clean oil vs. clean synth oil, probably not worth talking about in terms of difference.
I have never met anyone who can prove one is better than the other in all conditions and I go back and forth (different vehicles) all the time. For my $$ I mostly stick to name brand standard oils and keep the 3k change interval as the target.
Another thing to keep in mind is the Majesty does not run a clutch and transmission in the motor oil. It has separate oil and therefore does not require motorcycle specific blends. So, in theory, using Castrol auto oil, for example, should work just fine, whether you choose synthetics or not.
The next discussion might be the oil viscosity preferences for the Majesty 400 ... 10w40 for better efficiency or 20w50 for more protection ???
In terms of sheer protection, clean oil vs. clean synth oil, probably not worth talking about in terms of difference.
I have never met anyone who can prove one is better than the other in all conditions and I go back and forth (different vehicles) all the time. For my $$ I mostly stick to name brand standard oils and keep the 3k change interval as the target.
Another thing to keep in mind is the Majesty does not run a clutch and transmission in the motor oil. It has separate oil and therefore does not require motorcycle specific blends. So, in theory, using Castrol auto oil, for example, should work just fine, whether you choose synthetics or not.
The next discussion might be the oil viscosity preferences for the Majesty 400 ... 10w40 for better efficiency or 20w50 for more protection ???
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Well, I am due for my 600 service soon and plan to use 10w-30 Castrol dino oil. As soon as I hit 3k on the oil, I plan to use Mobil1 syntheic oil.
If you add up how much is invested in our toys, there is really no logical reason to not use the best oil there is.
If you add up how much is invested in our toys, there is really no logical reason to not use the best oil there is.
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:tongue8: here we go! just what this forum needs to spice things up ... an oil debate.
So, are you just using Mobil 1 as an example of a better oil because it is synthetic, or because you believe that it is the best synthetic oil?
So, are you just using Mobil 1 as an example of a better oil because it is synthetic, or because you believe that it is the best synthetic oil?
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Any synthetic oil is better no matter the brand. I have read too many studies on the pluses of syn oil to not use it. The longer use of syn is a hugh plus. I take my bikes to the dealer for changes and they charge an arm and a leg for labor alone so I will buy the best oil for my bike and leave it in there for 5k or one riding season.texascycle said:
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Even the best oil cannot compensate for dirt / dust / blow by residue left in the oil ... in some cases going the distance with viscosity does not necessarily help protect your motor.
Just to be clear, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just taking the other side for the sake of the listeners and the lack of something better to do.
That being said, I would also consider the Majesty motor / output characteristics to be one of the least likely configurations / hp monster to benefit from the most advanced oils on the market. That doesn't mean that synthetics aren't going to hold up better than standard oils, but it could suggest the benefits may never be realized.
Just to be clear, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just taking the other side for the sake of the listeners and the lack of something better to do.
That being said, I would also consider the Majesty motor / output characteristics to be one of the least likely configurations / hp monster to benefit from the most advanced oils on the market. That doesn't mean that synthetics aren't going to hold up better than standard oils, but it could suggest the benefits may never be realized.
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IMHO, synthetics are worth the extra money for high-temp applications for air-cooled engines. Keep in mind that regardless of the outside temperature, liquid-cooled engines run at a fairly constant temperature. (check your temp gage on a hot day!)
Synthetics do, however, retain their rated viscosity for a longer period of time than dino oils.
Synthetics do, however, retain their rated viscosity for a longer period of time than dino oils.
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Heat is the primary reason for oil break down and loss of viscous protection, but it is not the only reason. Synthetics will hold up longer in heat tests, but unless you are running the machine in stop and go traffic in 90-100 degree temps for hours a day, I doubt that standard oil will fail in the 3k mile intervals.
The liquid cooled AND low heat motor (at reasonable throttle levels) will be easy on the oil. Although I do use synthetic for other bikes (Amsoil for motorcycles in my FZ1) my decision was based on the motors ouput capabilities and the heat generated to do so. High performance motorcycles run a very lean mixture (less gas, more air ... relatively) at higher rpm's (10-12k) and that heat happens immediately! The same just wont happen on a Majesty ... its design is more relaxed, even though it can be quite compentent for what it is.
I have not heard of any case where someone would have saved their motor if they had used synthetic oils. Fact is that most engines today will run way past their target on standard oils. Living in San Antonio, South Texas, I feel that running a slightly thicker oil, like 20w50 gives me more protection than with the 10w40 synthetic, but 20w50 synthetic might do even better. But when you can pull the dipstick out of any vehicle and smell anything other than the original oil you put in, you are witnessing blow by chemicals passed from the combustion chamber into your oil, which is not filtered out effectively and is extremely corrosive to your engines internals. The thicker oil can help reduce blow by on certain motors but it is not a static reference. But no oil can protect from this effect and therefore cannot be left in the motor for too long, even if it is still viscous.
My FZ1 makes a different sound with synthetic oils than standard oils, and if you search the oil posts on the FZ1 board, you will find that most folks have gone to synthetics, but then back to standard because of strange happenings with the motor using synthetics. Some motors just do not like it, and some motors are specifically designed for standard oils (a Toyota article comes to mind). I rode to California and back on a filling of Amsoil 10w40, lost about half a quart somewhere in the middle (common complaint of synth users on FZ1's) and could not find Amsoil dealer anywhere. Had to use an alternate oil, but they have different chemical bases (according to the Motul rep it is not good to mix synthetic oils) and could have created a problem. It didn't but still it was a worry that I will not repeat. Next time, I am going with standard oils ... can find Castrol everywhere. I changed out to Motul standard and haven't lost a drop. Not sure of the science behind that mystery yet ...
The liquid cooled AND low heat motor (at reasonable throttle levels) will be easy on the oil. Although I do use synthetic for other bikes (Amsoil for motorcycles in my FZ1) my decision was based on the motors ouput capabilities and the heat generated to do so. High performance motorcycles run a very lean mixture (less gas, more air ... relatively) at higher rpm's (10-12k) and that heat happens immediately! The same just wont happen on a Majesty ... its design is more relaxed, even though it can be quite compentent for what it is.
I have not heard of any case where someone would have saved their motor if they had used synthetic oils. Fact is that most engines today will run way past their target on standard oils. Living in San Antonio, South Texas, I feel that running a slightly thicker oil, like 20w50 gives me more protection than with the 10w40 synthetic, but 20w50 synthetic might do even better. But when you can pull the dipstick out of any vehicle and smell anything other than the original oil you put in, you are witnessing blow by chemicals passed from the combustion chamber into your oil, which is not filtered out effectively and is extremely corrosive to your engines internals. The thicker oil can help reduce blow by on certain motors but it is not a static reference. But no oil can protect from this effect and therefore cannot be left in the motor for too long, even if it is still viscous.
My FZ1 makes a different sound with synthetic oils than standard oils, and if you search the oil posts on the FZ1 board, you will find that most folks have gone to synthetics, but then back to standard because of strange happenings with the motor using synthetics. Some motors just do not like it, and some motors are specifically designed for standard oils (a Toyota article comes to mind). I rode to California and back on a filling of Amsoil 10w40, lost about half a quart somewhere in the middle (common complaint of synth users on FZ1's) and could not find Amsoil dealer anywhere. Had to use an alternate oil, but they have different chemical bases (according to the Motul rep it is not good to mix synthetic oils) and could have created a problem. It didn't but still it was a worry that I will not repeat. Next time, I am going with standard oils ... can find Castrol everywhere. I changed out to Motul standard and haven't lost a drop. Not sure of the science behind that mystery yet ...
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WOW!! Thanks for all the data and insights. Having wondered whether it woud be worth the money to switch, I think I'll take your advice and stick with the dino oils in my Majesty. Since we experience about the same temperatures in Houston as San Antonio, your experiences sound like they'd be comparable with what I'd likely get. Thanks again for sharing your experiences. :thumbright:
With all the info out there today I can't believe this conversation still comes up?
Synthetics are superior to dino in every way. Period!
If you have any adverse effects look elswhere for your problem.
At a sustained high rpm high speed run any engine is apt to loose oil.
If you're going to change your oil @ 3k or less the benifits will be less but if your like me and will push the 3k to 4k mi. or more you will have the security of less breakdown and the ability to burn off more conaminants than dino.
If a motor uses oil it will saftley use synthetic.
Synthetics are superior to dino in every way. Period!
If you have any adverse effects look elswhere for your problem.
At a sustained high rpm high speed run any engine is apt to loose oil.
If you're going to change your oil @ 3k or less the benifits will be less but if your like me and will push the 3k to 4k mi. or more you will have the security of less breakdown and the ability to burn off more conaminants than dino.
If a motor uses oil it will saftley use synthetic.
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Nice insight. Information "out there" solved the issue and it should no longer be talked about. :notworthy:
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Here is my experience with Amsoil. I put Amsoil syntheic in my ZX9 and noticed no difference whatsover in clutch feel and engine feel. None whatsoever vs dino.
But for my car I recently put in Royal Purple, a known oil among people who are into cars and its is worth every penny. My Mazda6 V6 mtx revs faster and smoother all the time. Its beats mobil1, penzoil syn whatever I have tried.
I feel different vehicles react differently to syn oil.
I still do plan to use Castrol GTX at 600 service and than switch to royal purple at 3k.
But for my car I recently put in Royal Purple, a known oil among people who are into cars and its is worth every penny. My Mazda6 V6 mtx revs faster and smoother all the time. Its beats mobil1, penzoil syn whatever I have tried.
I feel different vehicles react differently to syn oil.
I still do plan to use Castrol GTX at 600 service and than switch to royal purple at 3k.
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Of course this is biased, but worth looking at. According to their tests, Royal Purple was the worst in the sheer test. https://www.amsoil.com/performancetests ... l_2005.pdf
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Did any of you guys put in synthetic during the 600 mile service. I am thinking of putting in Royal Purple syn in this weekend? I hear you should wait till 3k or more but damm that stuff is too good for me to wait.
Hi calgary2800,
I recently purchased Honda Silverwing 2005.
I asked a service tech guy at the dealer about when to switch to synthetic oil from conventional.
The guy said, put regular one at 600 mile oil change, then another at 4000 miles so that it gets proper break-in.
Then from the next one after, which is about 7000 or 8000 miles, switch to semi or full synthetic oil.
Last Augest, I purchased Suzuki Burgman 400 2005, and I actually put semi-synthetic oil at 600 miles oil change. I did not notice any bad effect with it, but if I knew what he said at that time, I would have followed his advise.
I recently purchased Honda Silverwing 2005.
I asked a service tech guy at the dealer about when to switch to synthetic oil from conventional.
The guy said, put regular one at 600 mile oil change, then another at 4000 miles so that it gets proper break-in.
Then from the next one after, which is about 7000 or 8000 miles, switch to semi or full synthetic oil.
Last Augest, I purchased Suzuki Burgman 400 2005, and I actually put semi-synthetic oil at 600 miles oil change. I did not notice any bad effect with it, but if I knew what he said at that time, I would have followed his advise.
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I used to have a '91 5.0 Mustang and a magazine did a test on synthetics.
They put a mildly modified 5.0 on a chassis dyno with all petroleum based fluids. Then they changed everything to RedLine synthetic - engine oil, manual transmission fluid, power steering fluid and differential fluid and got a 5% horsepower increase. Of course the Majesty doesn't have a manual transmission, power steering pump or differential but this does prove you can get a small horsepower gain from synthetics.
As for longevity, to me it's a tough question. Engines are so well made today it's rare to wear one out. Do you really plan to keep your Majesty past 50,000 miles? I have a friend with a '94 Magna 750 with over 80,000 miles on it who ha always used petroleum based oil - he changes it and the filter regularly and the engine has never had a problem.
On the other hand the Majesty takes so little oil going with synthetics doesn't add much cost unlike an auto engine that takes 5 quarts.
I'm going to use synthetic in mine after 1,000 miles. Where I think it might help is the final drive oil - that oil is not filtered or cooled.
They put a mildly modified 5.0 on a chassis dyno with all petroleum based fluids. Then they changed everything to RedLine synthetic - engine oil, manual transmission fluid, power steering fluid and differential fluid and got a 5% horsepower increase. Of course the Majesty doesn't have a manual transmission, power steering pump or differential but this does prove you can get a small horsepower gain from synthetics.
As for longevity, to me it's a tough question. Engines are so well made today it's rare to wear one out. Do you really plan to keep your Majesty past 50,000 miles? I have a friend with a '94 Magna 750 with over 80,000 miles on it who ha always used petroleum based oil - he changes it and the filter regularly and the engine has never had a problem.
On the other hand the Majesty takes so little oil going with synthetics doesn't add much cost unlike an auto engine that takes 5 quarts.
I'm going to use synthetic in mine after 1,000 miles. Where I think it might help is the final drive oil - that oil is not filtered or cooled.
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NO
Read the manual..."DO NOT use a higher grade oil than specified."
Read the manual..."DO NOT use a higher grade oil than specified."
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Well that's correct but the question is "why"?
In a standard motorcycle you don't want to use a super-slippery oil because it has a wet clutch and the oil may cause the clutch to slip - but the Majesty engine's oil has no connection to a clutch (or transmission).
Likwise the final drive is a simple gear drive - nothing to slip.
So the question is why would a synthetic or other high grade oil damage the Majesty's engine? I can't figure it out. If you can, please let me know.
There IS a long held belief that you must use petroleum based oil for break in or there will not be enough friction between the piston rings and cylinder bore for them to wear together - but Porches and Corvettes are shipped from the factory with synthetic oil for break-in, and you would figure they know something about engines.
I guess as long as there are gear-heads the synthetic vs. non-synthetic debate will go on. :?:
In a standard motorcycle you don't want to use a super-slippery oil because it has a wet clutch and the oil may cause the clutch to slip - but the Majesty engine's oil has no connection to a clutch (or transmission).
Likwise the final drive is a simple gear drive - nothing to slip.
So the question is why would a synthetic or other high grade oil damage the Majesty's engine? I can't figure it out. If you can, please let me know.
There IS a long held belief that you must use petroleum based oil for break in or there will not be enough friction between the piston rings and cylinder bore for them to wear together - but Porches and Corvettes are shipped from the factory with synthetic oil for break-in, and you would figure they know something about engines.
I guess as long as there are gear-heads the synthetic vs. non-synthetic debate will go on. :?:
Hello All !
Discussing oil is so much like discussing religion and politics. On my Majesty I change the oil and filter every 2000 miles. Period. The oil filter costs me $8 and the oil costs me $4.50 a quart. I use yamalube 10w-30. I figure that I could get away with changing every 3 k but the money is really not an issue when you consider the peace of mind you get knowing that you are very much protected at 2k. I also change the final transmission oil when I change the engine oil. I am going to stick with dino oil. I think synthetic is over kill in a thumper. I hope this does not ruffle too many feathers. It's not my intention to ruffle feathers.
Be safe everyone and have a great week and happy riding,
Rufus :wink:
Discussing oil is so much like discussing religion and politics. On my Majesty I change the oil and filter every 2000 miles. Period. The oil filter costs me $8 and the oil costs me $4.50 a quart. I use yamalube 10w-30. I figure that I could get away with changing every 3 k but the money is really not an issue when you consider the peace of mind you get knowing that you are very much protected at 2k. I also change the final transmission oil when I change the engine oil. I am going to stick with dino oil. I think synthetic is over kill in a thumper. I hope this does not ruffle too many feathers. It's not my intention to ruffle feathers.
Be safe everyone and have a great week and happy riding,
Rufus :wink:
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